Heh–that post title looks like a psychological scale. Heck, there probably is such a scale out there! But I digress. . . as usual I’m reading several books at once. The one that currently has center stage in my reading theater is Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. I’ve been dissatisfied with my own parenting of late and the dynamics with and between my kiddos and so have been reading. Today I came across a quote by some researchers whose study Kohn was discussing and I wanted to share:
public spending for children is often meager and always surrounded by contention, and it embodies the peculiar conception that children are not valuable as persons in their own right but only for the adults they will grow up to be . . . . The saccharine myth [that] . . . children are [America's] most precious natural resource has in practice been falsified by our hostility to other people’s children and our unwillingness to support them. (p 98)
I found this fascinating in many levels and was curious as to what others thought about it. I’ve read so many instances of disdain for children in the public domain of late (ex: a woman on one of the listserves to which I subscribe shared that once while flying with her infant the passenger next to her sat down and immediately exclaimed, “Don’t let your baby touch me!”) and I don’t know what to make of it. I’m curious and a bit scared to read what you all might respond, but I also look forward to having more points of view to ponder.
Ah, children… They don’t like me so much, and I don’t like them so much… Wonder who started this ;o)
I don’t have any child, and am an only child, so I may not be the most representative, but to my shame I am sometimes one of those sighing loudly in the theatre when there is a child asking questions aloud about the movie ! And one of the best tv ads I ever saw was the durex one with a young father looking helpless and desperate with his little son crying, yelling, making a big fuss, rolling on the ground next to him, and then the slogan : “use condoms”. Lol. Well, that was exagerated, I never saw a child acting like that in real life, except in real tv emissions like nanny911 (is it real life ?), i know i know…
I think I am always a bit jaleous of the freedom children have and adults don’t. So I guess if i’m jaleous, it is because I consider them as persons indeed, and not as future adults ?
In fact what bothers me most about children generally, is how they change their parents : as generous, altruist and free-minded one may be, once they become parents, 9 on 10 will focus their lives on their children… forgetting everything else, getting more and more selfish, family-centered. That is so disappointing and scary to me !
I agree with Lil about how adults change when children come into the picture. H and I dread the words out of our friends mouths “we are having a baby” that is when he and I feel that we have lost then to the darkside and they will never be the same again.
I do not however feel that kids are second class citizens, but I don’t really think of them as future adults either. I think maybe I try not to think about them….that much at all???…
I completely disagree with the previous comments.
I do not have children but most of our friends and some of our family members do. I see a lot of excitement and respect associated with birth and children in my group of friends and my larger community. I am happy to say that I have not seen much disdain for children around me, and even people who were afraid of children or “thought they didn’t like them” warm up to them when they are around them more. People are in general afraid of what they don’t know; I think that is probably why some people witness disdain toward children in some circles.
My friends with children have continued being our friends and participating to activities with others. Of course their lives are more centered toward their family life, because it is tremendously important for them, and with good reason. But they have taken life with children simply and continue to live their own lives, and advance their careers and spend time with their friends.
The children in my life have taught me so much already, and the oldest ones are barely 2 years old! They are so full of wonder for the world, and they remind me to slow down, take time to pay attention and enjoy our beautiful world we live in. We should make an effort to learn from them, instead of constraining them to fit in this system we live in.
I like children, generally, even though I’m pretty sure I don’t want any of my own. I don’t think I disdain them. What I DO disdain is parents. Not all parents, but parents who don’t believe they should act like parents. Frankly, there seems to be an epidemic of this these days, and it scares me to think what the next generation will look like when they grow up.
I’ve heard parents, when asked “Why did you give your kid a twinkie for breakfast?” say things like “Well, he wanted it, and he’d be mad at me if I didn’t give it to him.” Um…. Really? What does a sane person even say to that? I’d guarantee that’s the same parent who brings their kid to age-inappropriate movies and lets the kid talk the whole way through, lets them run wild in restaurants, and lets them kick the back of my airplane seat during the flight.
It’s not the kids’ fault for acting like that. It’s the parents’ fault. Kids don’t deserve the disdain, but it’s easy to see why people would be frustrated and kids are the easier target.
Gosh – I’m really amazed at the negativity that seeps through some of the above comments. When you said you were a little afraid of what people might say, I couldn’t imagine why. Huh. Now I can. I was really intrigued by your quote from the book – and so totally agree. I’ve sat here and pondered what the media and politicians have been saying about children lately – and it is entirely about the funding of the education in order to churn out employable people. Almost nothing about the quality of our society – or how important it is as a society to create an environment that builds happy, confident childen – who are allowed to be children for their entire childhood. Some of my pet despairs are the sexualisation of children through their clothes and toys and “entertainment” – the demand that children leap through hoops of after school activities that adults would never dream of placing upon themselves – the leaving of children to their own devices (usually electronic and shallow) rather than providing them with attention and care they truly need. We are currently debating in Australia, how much a person should be paid for looking after young children in a child care setting. Not what a child in that setting deserves or should receive – but how much the adult should get paid for doing it. Another thing that amazes me, as someone who works in a secondary boarding school, is the disdain many parents have for the staff who work with and look after their children on a day to day basis. I cannot imagine leaving my child (and yes, I think an 11 – 17 year old is still a child) with someone I constantly berated, belittled, and abused. What kind of message does that send the child – “I’m content to leave you – my child – with a person I loathe” . Very peculiar. I agree with you – I think children need to be appreciated for being children. And I think that people who see children as annoying distractions from the real thing need to stop and think about their own childhoods – is this how they would like to have been treated. And whilst I don’t want to see children as simply beings that will turn into adults – what will some of the above commenters do when they are elderly and need someone to help them do their shopping, care for them in hospital, keep them company, collect them in a taxi, etc. etc. etc. Would they like to be simply left in despair – or do they want that younger generation, who have been well cared for, respected, and taught respect and compassion, to lend them a thoughtful hand. Oh dear, that’s my soapbox moment.
As part of “some of the above commenters”, I must at least answer that I have never and don’t want to think about children as my future “employees” who will have to care for me when I’m old because I cared for them when they were young. I may be a little envious of their freedom as children (a little, because man, their way is so long, they have so much to learn !), but never thought of stoling it for my comfort when I’m old.
I think it is Ms Dolto who said that in a healthy family, the parents are the earth and the children are moons evolving around them, and meant to leave the periphery sooner or later and get their own galaxy. But in most families now (not all of them fortunately), the children are the center of everything, and that’s not the best for them nor for their parents, who sometimes forget to make their own private life and moreover, who may never really free their children of their “attraction”. Like when they’re supposed to stay close to take care of their old parents
My own parents at least clearly told me that when they’re old, I must have my own life and don’t take them in charge. I may do it anyway because I love them, but I’m not supposed to, and that’s a big difference. Because that’s a heavy charge. My parents take care of theirs, and I think I was pretty in the center of everything for them. Now that I’m independant and away from home, they work, work, work, and take care of the olders. And I’m sad to say I think they’re not very happy…